Predestination is a misleading word, for it concedes too much to our temporal way of thinking. God is not pre or post anything. He is present to everything. God does not look down rows of dominoes or into crystal balls. He does not have to wait for anything. Nor does he wonder what will happen. Nothing is uncertain to him, as the future is uncertain to us. There is not predestination but destination, not predestiny but destiny. This follows from divine omniscience and eternity.

But our free will follows from the divine love. To love someone is to make them free. To enslave them is always a defect of love.

The oneness of love and power is also why we need not fear God's power: it is his very love. Therefore, it cannot be used lovelessly. And it is also why we need not fear that his love will ever fail, for it is omnipotent. It is power. The very hands that tossed the galaxies around like grains of sand loved mankind so much that they let mere men nail them to the cross, all for love. The One who loved us even unto death, the supreme weakness, is infinite strength.

In fact, if we only believe and remember the unity of these two things, God's love and God's power, if we only believe in the two attributes that can least be subtracted from God, the practical result will be the most revolutionary transformation of joy and confidence imaginable in our lives. To see this all we need do is reread Romans 8:.31-39. "What then shall we say to this?" What is the inevitable consequence of the fact that the omnipotent God loves us so much that he "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all?" Simply this: "Will he not also give us all things with him?" It follows as the night the day that not "anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God." No, it follows even more surely than the night follows the day, for the laws of physics will change before the laws of God's nature ever will.

If God is all-powerful and all-loving, then "in everything God works for good with those who love him." Even in persecution, torture, and death! For although "for thy sake we are being killed all the day long," yet "in all these things we are more than conquerors." Why? Because these tortures, like everything, serve the one single end of the single-minded and single-hearted God who wills only our good.

If only we will it, everything works for our good because everything is God's love. It's so simple that only a child could understand it, or one who has become like a child. "I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth," said Jesus, "that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes" (Mt 11:25).

Last Edited on 4-Nov-2007 6:13 PM

My Spirit tells me that God predestined us from the very beginning to be reconciled and blessed. God was in Christ reconciling the whole world unto himself, not holding our sins against us. I believe we were predestined to awaken to the Christ that is within us, but in process, we live out our lives according to the law of the earth, which is seed, time, and harvest. This is where our free will engages, and this earth law governs our destination as far as dominion issues. The longer I know God, the more I understand how much he loves his creation. He is not willing that even one would be lost. I am convinced that no matter how fast one might run in the opposite direction, they will never out run the love of God.

The article Toni shared came to an understanding that all things work together for good for those who love God, and are called accordingly. I think of the scripture that says if you make your bed in hell, he will go with you. There is no place he won't go with us, and nothing we can do to change the way he feels about us. The fact that we are predestined, is a true blessing, and the fact that we have free will, is the idea that we may take longer to find out who we are in him, and longer to accept the blessing he spoke over us before the foundation of the world. It has been predetermined that we belong to God, and what he began in each one of us, he will complete. There is a place of rest in knowing it is a finished work, and our happiest moment in life, is coming into one accord with the Father, who created us, and being in agreement with what He says about us. I believe this word should settle our mind and bring harmony into our thinking. This was just a late night thought, and I wanted to add something when I read all that was posted. Have a good night, Love, Gayle

While we are on the journey into this higher realm, there
seems to "be" somewhat of a "free will" .......remembering
what Jesus said to PETER: "While you were young, you went
where YOU would but when you are older "another" shall gird
thee......and carry thee where thou wouldes't NOT!

Hebrews speaks very plainly about the "will" or "wills"
man's and Gods.........it says "by the which "will"
right after it has said "He taketh away the first that
He may establish the SECOND.........talking about wills,
and then continues .."by the which will."

Now, let me not leave Peter in that state of "death" by
which he was to glorify God. I know that we have all been
taught that it was Peter haning upside down on a cross,
he probably did, but I see it "spiritually" and I do not
see him "dying" but to "self" and the death he died made
him "ALIVE" in Christ, by which the "iron gate" opened of
it's own accord and Peter got out of prison.

By the time that happened, Peter was like us all, so used
to the prison, he could hardly believe he was actually
getting OUT!

The will of God finally .................

All that came before Me, Jesus said, are thieves and robbers, but I am come that ye might have LIFE!

Last Edited on 21-Nov-2007 4:48 AM

We now know where! WHEN did He choose us?
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. We were Spirit in Him. We were lowered (slowered) into a material world into density, and forgot who we were. We are awakening. Remember? Yes, little by little. Awake! Rise and shine, your Light has come to bring to your remembrance!

Having pre-destined us (you and me) unto the adoption of children (strongs 5206: the placing as sons)by Jesus Christ unto HIMSELF! This is His pleasure!

Consider this, my friend! You are a king or queen, and you sire a baby boy. This is your first. He is predestined to rule and reign on the throne. You know this! He, as he goes on, knows this, but must grow and learn how to be a king. This gives him great hope, while those born who think they are paupers, have great despair, and then you have everything in between.

His life is predestined, but every move he makes is not controlled, but he still lives his life, makes his mistakes, is naughty at times, gets frustrated and angry, etc. But all the while, he has GREAT HOPE, because he knows who he is!!!
Do you know who you are? You were appointed in God before the foundations of the world, to rule and reign as kings. There is no difference in male or female. It is Christ in you! You have GREAT HOPE! YOU HAVE GREAT HOPE! Isn't it wonderful to know who you are!

It’s like the old question, “How far can you walk into the woods?” The answer is exactly halfway and then you will start to walk out of the woods. Everything God created has this circularity feature to it. You can only run so far from God and then you start running back to him. There is only one symbol that represents this and it is a circle. It has no beginning and no end; the Alpha and Omega. We use this when we marry someone and talk about the ring.

God does allow us a lot of latitude in our life and gives us a lot of freedom to make our own choices. We have a choice as to what kind of life we want to live while here on this earth. Jesus said that He was come so we could have life more abundantly. If I choose to follow His teachings on how to live my life then I will learn how to walk, talk and speak as one having authority and the result will be that I will learn to be an overcomer and have peace, love and joy in His Spirit. However, I can choose to live life by my own desires doing my own will and it will bring about many sorrows. It’s the law of sowing and reaping.

God could have created us with no will other than His will but that would not have satisfied His desire to have us love Him of our own free will. Love is not fulfilled if it is force on someone. The love of God is so powerful that there is no way we can resist it. When Jesus was walking by Matthew while Matthew was busy collecting taxes all it took was one look into the eyes of Jesus and the word spoken to Matthew, “Come follow Me!” and Matthew immediately got up and left with Jesus.

Let me quote a good friend of mine, Kelley Varner who wrote this in his book, Chosen For Greatness.

Paul said in Eph. 1:4 (Amp)

Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out
for Himself as His own] in Christ before....

Before the Creator formed you, He knew you. You were chosen in Him before He shaped this universe. The Almighty spoke to you about His plan for your life before any of your bones began to grow in the womb of your mother. You were a special, one-of-a-kind word out the mouth of God before you ever had a body!

Never doubt this reality for a moment. God could never make another person just like you—you are too special! You existed in and with Him before the appearing of the worlds, but now you have been manifested in time and in a body. He has prepared a very unique and precious body in which to show His love in this time-space world. You are an integral part of His sovereign purposes in the earth. Father God knew you before you existed and created you for this extraordinary time in history (Esther 4:14). God thought of you before your parents did! The Creator pre-selected you as an integral facet of His plan before you were fully formed in your mother’s womb, before the beginning began.

John said in 1 Jn. 1:1, (KJV)

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard,
which we have seen with our eves, which we have looked upon,
and our hands have handled, of the Word of life.

John also said in Rev. 19:13, KJV

And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and
His name is called The Word of God.

To summarize, Paul unwrapped a great mystery (a sacred secret) in Ephesians 1:4—from the foundation of the world, we who were “in” the pre-incarnate Word were chosen “out of” the Word, predestined by the Lord for Himself, out of Himself As He was the Son of His Father’s love, so we are sons of His love. Our selection is based not upon the things we have done but upon the nature of His glorious love for us.

This verb for “chosen” is in the aorist tense, which designates a point of action in the past, present, or future, but especially in the past. It is the “snapshot” tense. He “hath” blessed us (Eph. 1:3)! His is a finished work, a done deal. Before you had done one good work, His choice was made.

Paul said in Rom. 8:33a, (KJV)

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect?

Peter said in I Pet. 1:2, (KJV)

To the Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Those foreordained for great things in God are His “elect.” Derived from eklegomai, this Greek word is eklektos (Strong’s #1588), and it means, “select; by implication, favorite.” It can also mean “picked out, chosen.”

Peter also said in 1 Pet. 2:9, (KJV)

But ye are a chosen [elect] generation, a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

John said in Rev. 17:14, (KJV)

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them. for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings. and they that are with Him are called, and chosen [elect], and faithful.

Throughout the Scriptures, God does the choosing. Compare the Hebrew word for “chosen,” which means, “selected; a choice youth (often collective); to examine, choose out, elect, prefer.” The verb form means, “to try; select.” The period during which a “young man” was in his prime could have been the period during which he was eligible for the draft, age 20 to 50. We have been called to service. His elect have been hand picked, predestined by the Lord for greatness, chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.

http://kingdomlife.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8447#8447

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/battle.html

Thanks!

John,
GOOD NEWS, Inc.

" I actually believe that we were shown what our life would be about here on earth, and we might have had some choosing as to what we would come here to accomplish, and how we would end up leaving this earthly plane, but we just don't remember it once we were lowered into the earth." (end quote)

As part of the Elohim I do believe we may have chosen.
In this life I believe we move according to plan.

Be blessed sister and thank you so much for your message,

Jack