Didn't God say, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Does this not speak of our omnipotent God? "For Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things (Hebrews 2:10ff)."

See your mighty God. See how He wounds and how He heals. Does God not say, "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39)

Let us not be afraid to suffer my friend, for "the blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly." (Proverbs 20:30)

Lastly let us not be afraid to die for "the LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." (1Samuel 2:6)

Be blessed and be brave,

John

I just want to encourage you as God's son, that you are entitled to all the Kingdom posesses. Those who are in God's Kingdom, which is righteousness, joy, and peace in the Holy Spirit, are not divided. God owns cattle on a thousand hills, and this is your inheritance. He said if you speak to that mountain it will be removed. I have often looked at that promise as the mountains being divided. We could speak to Mt. Sinai, and continue to produce fire and water, for Sinai only produced death. If we say to My.Zion, to be removed, we speak to a mountain of faith. I recognize we must leave the law mountain, and live in Zion.

We, in the natural, are divided, until we reckon ourself dead. This word reckon means to set a ledger, and the word ledger is whats put on a grave stone. I bring this to your attention knowing you already know this, but its good to rehearse the matter.

I hear so many say we are dead and should not feel hurt when we go through things. It is our old man that is dead, and not the new creation which is the Lord from heaven. This part of us is alive, and sits in heavenly places, with the enemy under our feet.

I myself was divided when I was diagnosed with breast cancer last October. Here is that word suddenly again, but I suddenly went through a time of fear, and depression. I could not get all of the thoughts that come with the word cancer off of my mind. We had family call to encourage, however I began getting my things in order, telling my children how much I loved them, and trying to cope with the feelings of hopelessness. My father needed me at this time, along with our grandson, mother, and I still had responsibilities. I wanted to find a way to withdrawal myself, and suffer this process out by myself, but I was too busy. I couldn't sleep, and I lacked energy.

I noticed our friends came with energy, gifts, and most of all, hope. There were some who meant well as they said things like, even if they get it all, cancer always comes back, or, you will die with this if you continue believing what you believe. This is a sign you are believing the devil's lie.

I believe the law on the earth is seed, time, and harvest. I did not know where this cancer came from, but I believed it came by this law. Perhaps by eating wrong, not getting enough sleep,etc... This law deals with the carnal part of us. I needed to come up a little higher.

Michael continued to encourage me, and one day he recognized I was being affected by this situation. He spoke a word over me, and said you will not die, you have been called by God, and what he began in you he will complete.

I listen to tapes while I shower everyday, and I noticed that I would talk about whatever I was hearing all the time. I realized Michael would preach about what he might be reading. I thought about how faith comes by hearing, and I actually saw my faith rise to a new place, by simply hearing the true word of God. I began saying to myself, I am healed, I spoke it to everyone I saw, I began to speak I am healed because he sent his word and healed me. I did not quote a scripture, I had a vision that I was healed, and I spoke the word I had become.

Moses led the people for 40 years and they were not sick. God instructed them to eat the whole lamb before they left Egypt. I often wonder what this means to a people now. Perhaps many things, but a thought that comes to me is Jesus would say "your sins be forgiven," before he healed some. If they had been in a prayer line and been healed, and their mind had not been right, they would have come back to the healing line. I believe we need to have the mind of Christ to know who we are, and understand what he has prepared for us. We need to have forgivness for all of creation because God planted himself in every man, and forgiveness is God's merciful nature for his creation. We need to discern the Lord's body to keep from being sick. The body is all of creation, and we should be sensitive to each other.

Stress and fear are the opposite of faith, and we can not have both of these going on in our mind, or we are confused and divided. We need to speak those things that are not, as though they are. We identify with who he says we are in God. He says we are the righteousness of God, and he spoke a blessing over us, and set us aside and called us holy. We are healed and the manifestation of that healing is the sudden miracle, that comes by faith.

I speak healing to your family and I expect the sudden miracle that you have been looking for. God bless you and your family. Love In Christ, Gayle

I've not conjured up anything nor built up my own faith. All is God from the illness to the healing. I am in the hands of a God that is working all things for good in my life and I trust in that. This makes it real simple and I believe God likes it, like that. I trust and love Him even though I don't the why of many things.

Be blessed and yes be healed,

John

John, I pray for your healing in Jesus' name. Accept the healing as it is yours thru the atonement. Man, I feel the anointing of God upon me as I write now, more than I have in a long time.

Ken the last guy that shared with me that kind of thinking, wrote me later from His death bed saying He had been wrong and had met the sovereign God.

He was an old Word of Faith preacher that accepted my teaching of Universal Salvation but balked at God's sovereignty. He saw the light in the last two weeks of his life and died peacefully in the arms of the Omnipotent God.

You cannot work around the scriptures I laid out above. God wounds and He heals, period.

I have experienced and witnessed more miraculous healings since I accepted the omnipotence of God,"for Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things."

This is a mature theology and truth for a grown son.

In His Sweet Lord Jesus,

John

Ken

"Might Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" (Job 2:10ff)
Didn't God say, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Does this not speak of our omnipotent God? "For Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things (Hebrews 2:10ff)."

See your mighty God. See how He wounds and how He heals. Does God not say, "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39)

Let us not be afraid to suffer my friend, for "the blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly." (Proverbs 20:30)

Lastly let us not be afraid to die for "the LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." (1Samuel 2:6)

Be blessed and be brave,

John

Ken, that is a creation of your soul and not of the Spirit. Here is an example of the teaching you espouse and where it leads. I used to listen to Hobart's tapes in the day. When a preacher announces they have an anointing for healing I suggest everyone hit the door.

Oh, how these soulish self appointed preachers desire to stand between you and God! These are not anointed men but deluded men. Follow these power seeking men, everyone of them and see their end.

This is yesterday's version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_Freeman

This is today's version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeland_Revival

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Bentley

And we wonder why the world scoffs!

Lord helps us,

John

Does it seem strange to anyone all the scriptures that have been quoted in the above posts are mixed? I mean it's as if there were 2 God's speaking?

The more I read, it seems as if the Jehovah of the Old Testament is nothing like the Christ of the new.
Yes, I see some similarities but I mean just look at John and Ken's scriptures stated above it's honestly like yall are speaking of 2 different Gods.
One who heals, blesses, restores etc.. And the other testing with sickness, disease, and death. One who saves the other destroys. Then there is the God that does both.
I can understand how the world thinks Christians do serve a schizo God and wants no part of it.

Not saying John or Ken are right or wrong. YOu both make valid points and backed with the word. But if given the choice, I think I rather like Ken's God better...and I think the rest of mankind would agree.

I like the peaceful, happy God. Been through so much hell that I need someone pleasant to deliver me.

Look at this duality: God allowed Satan to tempt and bring destruction to Job to prove his faithfulness to God. Then Christ tells us in the Lords prayer to say: Deliver us from evil. Which is it?

Now here's the question in my mind...has our bible been tampered with. How do we know that KJV hasn't been tainted to some degree. It's an honest question.
I'm not saying it's all wrong. But again it was just men translating their 'interpretation'. I have been reading the Aramaic version which was the language Christ spoke, and man do the scriptures look different in that version.
Google Aramaic translation of the Bible online and check it out for yourself. It's interesting to read.

Ok...I know someone is going to have something to say on my input....
Bracing myself for the onslaught,
Bev :)

I have written as God directed more than 10 pages of dissertation onthese verses and I will unequivocally tell you that you are wrong in your belief. God is not schizophrenic as you present. HE IS ONE! He doesnt make me sick then heal me, he doesnt put disease upon me then put stripes on His son's back for healing that makes no sense.
The anointing that I have received of the LORD is not a concoction of my soul or thinking it is PURELY from GOD. Perhaps if you would come down off of your high horse for a few moments you could do something but criticize the anointed of God.
If you would like I will send you a FREE copy of what I have written over the past few days. But if you are afraid to study and change your thoughts to the truth as I suppose you are then don't ask for it. If you do I will send it to you with no obligation.
I know nothing of Hobart's teachings but I do know what the SPIRIT has shared with me from the word of GOD.

Every verse you have quoted above has far greater meaning than what you have expressed. None of them prove that GOD places sickness or disease upon people for any purpose at all as you seem to say. NOT ONE! I would post my writing on here but it is way too lengthy and I will not do that on a site that is not my own. Its free to all who ask though and rather enlightening if I do say so myself. Not because I did it but because it is balanced and was directed by God.

I hope you recover fully from the things you spoke of that werre bothering your body at this time. BUt it could be some need for discerning the Lord's body as well that has cause some of these things. Just a thought! I know that the suffering I have faced and am facing now is NOT GOD'sPLAN FOR me but the deliverance form them is definitely HIS PLAN.
It is obvious we disagree but I still count you as a brother in the Lord and I pray for your comeplete healing to come into manifestation.

In closing I would like to ask one question of you. Do you consider me as your brother in the Lord?

Do we want to be right or reconcilled, do we want to manifest what God said about us. I do not see myself as being very knowledgeable, and I recognize Ken as my elder, and I give respect to you John. You are accepted in the beloved, and my brother in Christ.

We need to discern the Lord's body, and think before we use scripture that might stone someone to death. I believe Ken's post was a cry from Christ's body, looking for a word in an overwhelming family situation. We, the body are to be strong for him and offer prayer and a positive word in love, from the Lord.

I understand God is Sovereign, and the scripture says the things John quoted. There needs to be teaching on random verses in context. In consideration of all of the verses quoted, I believe the heart of God is, and will always be LOVE.

When God says he creates evil, we see the evil manifested in man by his choices. God gave us a law in the earth which is seed, time, and harvest. My personal belief is that this is the way disease comes on creation. Whether it comes by heritage, wrong choices, etc.. It comes in a world that is out of balance. While I say this, I say it with the understanding that we are dealing with the old man, the one that is of the earth. The earth man is the one under the law in the earth.

There are two of us, and the new man is not under the seed, and harvest law.

Jesus came that we might have an abundant life, and the thief is whatever steals our life. We live in a world that is familiar with nature's catastrophic disasters, widespread life threatening infections, pollution, drugs and I could go on... We the people house the God of creation, and we make choices, we choose darkness, evil, and death. Our earth is out of balance, and the world is looking for the Saviors that will come on Mt. Zion.

Scriptures are stones unless they are walked out in our lives. Come up higher, the old man is dead. The new man is alive, healed, and sitting in heavenly places.Give the old man no place, choose life, and let it be abundant. God loved his creation so much that he sent himself in his son to die for us, He choose life! Love In Christ, Gayle

That is a scary thought ..... someone or something making plans that supersede God's plan. The ramifications of even a single minute event happening... OUTSIDE of and APART from God's intentions is a horror beyond imagination.

Oh, how the carnal man hates the idea that God is in charge of everything.

Why is this below so hard to accept.

"...out of Him and through Him and into Him is the all: to Him be the glory into the eons! Amen!" (Romans 11:36, CLT)

God works ALL things after the counsel of His own will. (Ephesians 1:11ff)

John

You are quoting scripture that is confusing. It must be discerned by Spirit, the letter off the page.

Thinking out loud!

Gayle, the secret is to surrender all to Him. Quit doing and and wanting. Just be. We have a good Father in God and He has our best interest. Just rest in Jesus. Let Him have His being.

Most Christians act as if this fallen world and these cursed bodies are their home. Your life on earth is a vapor and your body dust! We are spirit, first and foremost.You will certainly see more healing by resting. If He doesn't heal you, do not be afraid to die, you will rise again. To live is Christ, to die is gain. Why are Christians so damn afraid to die!

For me:
Prostate cancer ...... no worry. It's His business. Heart disease ........ no worry. It's His business.
My children .......... no worry. It's His business.

Let us learn to just be and let our Father take care. He is a good Father with our best interest. Christ Jesus has His being in me. Jesus has His being in you ..... let's just rest and let Him manifest what he will. Guarantee you, the generation that doesn't see death will not care whether they die or live. They will be resting in what ever the will of the Father is. Amen.

Lord knows the other isn't working. Been there done that. So have you.

God bless,

John

God does not create evil nor darkness. He is light in whom is NO darkness at all. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word!!!!
Man creates evil and darkness with the creative power that God gave to man. It is up to man what he does with it!!! You are unseasoned my little brother..but your still my brother..and if u do not have that revelation..oh well..live and learn my friend!!!!

your eternal brother..snowman

GOD: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isa 45:7

You seem to think that somehow God is the one who ordains rape, incest, murder, holocaust, etc... What a pitiful description and action of GOD who IS LIGHT and IN HIM is no darkness.

The GOD I serve is LOVE. You cannot find love in any act of death other than that on the cross and that affected us all bringing us out of the curse that ADAM # 1 brought us down into.

I truly fel sorry for someone who cannot in any way know how to pray for anything as they see and say that God is doing it so they are afraid to do so as they would be fighting against God or something. When the BIBLE tells US RESIST THE DEVIL AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU.

Ignorance is not bliss and you continually reject anything but your favorite few verses that you have taken so far out of context and away from their meaning that you have successfully distorted the scripture and its meaning.

I challenge you to study these verses and each word contained within them for yourself using a Strongs Concordance and not only the writings of those whom agree with you. I personally studied all of these verses out recently and the meanings of the words makes the verse say something totally different than the KJV.

For example the word KILL used in the verse that says I kill and I make alive, the word Kill in the Hebrew actually means to die. Therefore are you saying that God dies? I think not. FYI this same word is used about 350+ times and all deal with death and or dying. Your argument is not holding water and your ship is sinking.

Work calls see ya later.

You seem to think that somehow God is the one who ordains rape, incest, murder, holocaust, etc... What a pitiful description and action of GOD who IS LIGHT and IN HIM is no darkness.

The GOD I serve is LOVE. You cannot find love in any act of death other than that on the cross and that affected us all bringing us out of the curse that ADAM # 1 brought us down into.

I truly fel sorry for someone who cannot in any way know how to pray for anything as they see and say that God is doing it so they are afraid to do so as they would be fighting against God or something. When the BIBLE tells US RESIST THE DEVIL AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU.

Ignorance is not bliss and you continually reject anything but your favorite few verses that you have taken so far out of context and away from their meaning that you have successfully distorted the scripture and its meaning.

I challenge you to study these verses and each word contained within them for yourself using a Strongs Concordance and not only the writings of those whom agree with you. I personally studied all of these verses out recently and the meanings of the words makes the verse say something totally different than the KJV.

For example the word KILL used in the verse that says I kill and I make alive, the word Kill in the Hebrew actually means to die. Therefore are you saying that God dies? I think not. FYI this same word is used about 350+ times and all deal with death and or dying. Your argument is not holding water and your ship is sinking.

Work calls see ya later.

Becasue I love you Ken, and even spent much time praying for you the other night, I am going to answer your question concerning the, "James 1:13" scripture.

My friend, God does not tempt people directly, He uses Satan ,demonic powers and malignant spirits to do so. Never the less, God is sovereign over all things that happen in this world. Read Job 1 and 2. God doesn't directly tempt Job but Satan does. However all of Job's evil is said to come ultimately from the hand of God. (Job 1:16,21 & 2:10)

The greatest example of that which we wrestle with deals with the crucifixion of God's own Son. With these verses below, look at Whom the ultimate force is. Can you see where the buck stops?

After he was arrested according to the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified this very man and killed him by the hands of lawless men. Acts 2:23

"For in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate actually met together with the gentiles and the people of Israel to oppose your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to carry out everything that your hand and will had predetermined to take place." Acts 4:27,28

There is a branch of Theology given over specifically to "God's creation and use of evil in this world." It is called "Theodicy". If you are having a hard time reconciling, " a good and loving God's with His creation and utilization of evil" and you don't want to look at Truth, place your hands over your eyes, and just proclaim in a quivering voice, "it is the "Mystery of Iniquity!" Better that, than accuse God of not being in control. lol

God bless and I do know these concepts are tough but they are necessary to understand if one is to advance in the Kingdom. The Good News is that God will take all the evil and turn it ultimately to good. This is called Universal Reconciliation. The "making of evil into good" is the greater mystery. "Oh, however will this wondrous God of our accomplish this?" I do thrill to see the Day!

John

It is talking about man with god IN HIM..man creating evil..man creating darkness..with our thought life etc. Wake up my brother and learn how to spiritually discern these scriptures my precious friend!!!!

snowman

Last Edited on 9-Oct-2009 7:44 PM

God GAVE us a creative power! It is up to us what we do with it.

snowman

Sir, you and Ken have a number of scriptures to tackle. I laid out many to show you pretentious little wannabe creative gods that there is a big God, a really big God that works ALL things after the counsel of His own will. And if you want to tell me of your creativeness and your healing touch, go find a poor soul without a limb and create a new one for him or her. You do that and I am all ears, pal.

No sir you have nothing to teach me, for I rejected the clowns with the prosperity gospel decades ago because it is born of Adamic/self preservation and a love for the things of this world. Someone once wrote, "the immature desire to travel toward God by only pleasant and delectable ways." Now,that sure seems to fit the theology of a number here, including you.

It cost our Christ, the loss of all to possess us and so shall it cost us loss of all, to possess our Christ. It's His life for ours, we die and He lives and the neatest thing is that we then live again.

Don't be afraid to die boys. You will rise again. Now pick up your cross, pilgrims!

John

You spoke negatively about those who preach on prosperity and yet you are dying and they are living. I just wonder how long before the doctrine you believe and espouse will make you take your final breath, sounds like not very long unless you rise up and accept GODS healing power.

I appreciate all prayers even the ones I know won't be heard. LOL

I pray for your family that they won't fall prey to this damnable doctrine you present. Maybe one of them will have the revelation of the finished work of God and true reconciliation and will arise out of this silly stupor you have allowed yourself to fall prey tothat is KILLING you. Of course we all hope and expect our families to know and learn more than we know.

DON'T BE AFRAID LO LIVE JOHN!
For the scriptures say that Jesus came that we might have LIFE AND LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY. NOT DEATH AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE.

P.S. I do not always agree with or understand that which Snowman may say at times, but we have something you need greatly and that is a working relationship with each other that doesn't belittle each other in spite of the differences we may have. Perhaps a relationship like that would do you good.

I'm not sure that 'defending' the truth/Gospel in this manner is how Christ would do it.

John,
Ken and Snowman are trying to help you to Live.
Can you not for one moment see the goodness they have toward you?

The "Pal/Pilgram/Big boy pants" statements are condescending and do not offer the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

Ok boys, you may now resume but play nice. :)

Just know you are always loved by Gayle and I.

your eternal brother,

Michael

Of course I love you and your wife and I have and continue to pray God's peace and healing be manifest in Gayle's life. As I have shared with Bev, there are trees of healing on both sides of the river, so ever shall healing be found in His wings. Whether, on this side or the other, ALL shall be healed. That's the "GOOD NEWS" and I am glad for it!

John

Have a blessed day!
Ken

I was addressing John on the 'pilgram/big boy etc.. I do know where it started.

But Ken you said this to John: "I just wonder how long before the doctrine you believe and espouse will make you take your final breath, sounds like not very long unless you rise up and accept GODS healing power."
***********
Ken, that was harsh. Almost cold. This statement made me shudder and cry for John. The Ken Hill I know is more gracious and seasoned than this.

We can be absolutely right doctrinally and at the same time be so wrong in our delivery. John is our brother in the Lord, he precious, he may not see eye to eye with us...but that is OK. He is not a viper, nor a money changer.

My point, can't we all just get along? Speak to one another with respectful words? This stuff flying back and forth is definately a "KINGDOM DIVIDED". The purpose of the enemy (any enemy) is to divide and conquer.

Ken, I know your heart towards the Lord and the word.
You are tenacious, faithful, and a warrior. And I do also know that you have the heart of a Pastor. Maybe it's me, I have just never seen you use strong words like this towards anyone in a discussion.

Don and I are well and he sends his regards. ;)Hugs to Winnie.

Bev is retiring the black and white striped shirt and turning in the whistle.

Peace to all

He wants me to be humble..but he keeps lifting me up.
It is so true..we have to learn to love everyone. follow peace with all men. I feel funny when he calls me god..I told him..Mike is fine. I'm not turning in my big boy pants..I just got them..and I like em.

I have known Kenny personally now for about 37 yrs. He is a good man and he loves the Lord. Bev..you and Don are good people also. We are altogether lovely!!!!

Ref..you just rest in the Lord and all will be fine. I pray everyone has a great day and a better one tom!!

I love you all..John..Kenny..Bev..Don..and myself!!

snowman..let it snow..

Whhhaaaat! Son of a motherless goat ,Ken said that to me! lol

John, I truly pray for your strength and healing and trust all is well with you.

To God be All Glory.
Ken

The above verse is one that some use in their list of verses to supposedly prove the sovereignty of God and to attempt to prove that God uses sickness and disease and that God actually places sickness and disease upon mankind.

Interestingly enough, they leave out the preceding verses where God tells Satan the parameters that he (satan) can use. It is not God doing these things to Job, it is satan. To take the portion of scripture that says What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? And then to attribute the evil that happened to Job as being that which God was doing is paramount to a gross misinterpretation of the verse. He did not say that we receive evil at the hand of God, he simply said that we shall sometimes receive evil, but he never attributed the evil to God, only the good. This proves nothing that would even indicate that God does the promotion of evil upon His people. This test was not something to prove anything to God, it was to prove to satan that in spite of a physical adversity and in spite of a condition of discomfort that some will not lose their integrity and their confidence in God. It does nothing to prove that God did/caused/or performed these evil acts upon Job.

Isa 45:5-7
(5) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
(6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
(7) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

To form something and create it does not mean that the creator of it would necessarily use all of that which He created upon or against the people that He has created for His name’s sake. Evil is simply a distortion of that which could have been used for good and it is still the wrong tree. One may look at something as evil while another looks at the same thing as good. It depends upon the perspective of the one doing the looking or the one in/under the circumstance at the time.

e•vil
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant. See note at bad 1 .
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper. n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice
The American Heritage Dictionary

1Jn 1:5-10
(5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It is evident to me that God created everything from within Himself, by the spoken word. i.e. Light be, and light was! If this is true then how can God create darkness or evil as 1st John 1:5 says “…in Him is no darkness at all.”

There is obviously some room for interpretation in the passage in Isaiah 45:7 since it says that God created both the darkness and evil. Perhaps it is our understandings of what darkness and evil really is that have been in error, and not the word of God contradicting itself. Because it plainly says in 1st John 1:5 that there is no darkness IN GOD.

Heb 2:1-11
(1) Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
(2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
(3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
(4) God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
(5) For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
(6) But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
(7) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
(8) Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
(9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
(10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

To take this verse out of its context and to try to use it to prove that sickness and disease are OF GOD by its use are a great disservice to the meaning the author God is presenting here. If you want to use these words “all things” to literally mean “all things” then we would have to say that murder, rape, incest, pornography, drunkenness, idolatry, fornication, lying, deceit, backbiting, death, hate, racism, etc……. are all of God, and came forth from God. How ridiculous are we going to be to try to attribute all of these things to the nature of GOD who IS LOVE. Natural (phileo or eros) love would not allow you to do these things to your own family and the AGAPE LOVE OF GOD would definitely not allow GOD to do/permit/allow/bring upon HIS children any of these miserable things that pertain to fallen man and not the nature of God.
This argument, that God is the author of all of these things is falling apart at the seams because the word of God cannot be broken into proof texts to attempt to verify a particular person or groups’ beliefs. It must be taken with the whole counsel of God and not broken off in chunks of personal beliefs for mans sake. There is no scripture that is of private interpretation. It must flow with the whole counsel of God.

Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

An interesting verse indeed! Interestingly enough the word kill in this verse is used in the KJV 790 times and the main translation of the word is DIE. So therefore, are we saying that God dies? Die 257 times; died 154 times; dead 136 times; death 83 times; slay 44 times; slew 40 times; kill 24 times; slain 18 times; dieth 16 times; and 10 more words all dealing with death, dying, and necromancy. So are we now saying God is a necromancer? For those who do not know the definition of necromancy it is “1. The practice of supposedly communicating with the spirits of the dead in order to predict the future. 2. Black magic; sorcery. 3. Magic qualities.” It also carries with it the meaning of having physical/sexual relations with a corpse. The American Heritage Dictionary

So I guess if you want to live on the death side you can, but if you want to do so you can CHOOSE LIFE. You see, death exists and is an automatic state or condition in which we find ourselves IN ADAM since the “fall”. LIFE however is a CHOICE that we must make as we have our eyes opened up to the availability of life. In fact, LIFE is the only CHOICE WE HAVE.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
Notice here it does not say BY GOD DEATH CAME, it clearly states that death CAME BY MAN. The choice of man (ADAM # 1) in the garden of Eden to partake of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL is totally what caused death to come into manifestation. He never even lived out his first full day!

1Co 15:22-28
(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
(25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
(27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
(28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

An interesting message is found in verse 26 above. It says that the last ENEMY that shall be destroyed is DEATH. Death being an enemy will be destroyed? YES! Absolutely! The word destroyed comes from the Greek word katargeo 2673 which means “to render idle, unemployed, inoperative, and inactive. To deprive of force, power, or influence. To terminate all intercourse with one.” Yes, death shall be rendered inactive, powerless, having no force or ability to affect anyone or anything any more.

How will death be destroyed and neutralized? By a people in God’s Image coming to the realization of who they are IN HIM and allowing that POWER OF GOD within to manifest in and thru them to destroy death in all realms.

Another verse that someone used to supposedly prove that God was the author of all things bad as well as good in our lives was:
Pro 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.
Personally I find no application in this verse to the subject at hand in the first place.

1Sa 2:6-10
(6) The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
(7) The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
(8) He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
(9) He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
(10) The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

Once again the word killeth in this Old Testament passage is from the same Hebrew word as the one used in Deuteronomy 32:39 above. It cannot mean anything different than the other word means, therefore there is no need for further admonition on it.

Let me make something very clear here. I do believe that God is in charge of death and life and that nothing is out of His control. But in all of these verses there is nothing that satisfies the thought that God makes us sick or places diseases or infirmity upon us for any reason. To say that God uses or must use sickness, disease, infirmity to “take his children home” or to “teach them something” negates the work of the Holy Spirit, who is OUR TEACHER. There is nothing in the word of God that would even suggest that God ever places any type of malady upon people to “teach them a thing or two”. But there is Biblical proof that the Holy Spirit is given unto us to “lead and guide us into ALL TRUTH”. Sickness and disease are part of the curse, and we have been redeemed from the curse by and thru the finished work of the cross.

But the word of God is absolutely FULL of references that tell us that God is our HEALER. Not I am the Lord that maketh thee sick to prove my sovereignty, but I AM THE LORD THAT HEALETH THEE!.

The only thing that I have ever learned thru sickness and disease is that I want no part of it. It has never caused me to be more humble or broken before the Lord. It usually pushes some away from a closer relationship with God, but that is not a given, it is a choice we must make when we are faced with adversity. What will we do in the face of adversity? Will we allow it to drive us away form God or will we see that it is an opportunity for us to overcome an attack of the enemy against our lives. I gain strength thru overcoming! But I don’t have to overcome what God does to me, I overcome thru what God has provided for me. We are told the following:
Jas 4:6-10
(6) But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
(7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
(8) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
(9) Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
(10) Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

These highlighted verses let us know there are some things that WE have to do. Certainly God empowers us to do them, but if one never knows they are empowered to do them then they walk around in ignorance. God showed me years ago that there are two types of ignorance. One is honestly ignorant or not knowing how to do something cause you have never exposed yourself to the learning of that thing. The other is willing ignorance because we IGNORE the truths and principles we have had placed before us. One is acceptable and one is not!

1Pe 5:6-11
(6) Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
(7) Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
(8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
(9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
(10) But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
(11) To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Once again we see some of the responsibility falls upon us. We must HUMBLE OURSELVES, WE MUST BE SOBER, AND VIGILANT BECAUSE WE DO HAVE AN ADVERSARY WHO WANTS TO DESTROY US. Look back again at the meaning of the word destroy given above. It means to render useless, to take away the power thereof, to make unemployed, etc….
He tells us here that we are to resist the enemy by being steadfast in the faith. The word resist here comes from the Greek word “anthiste?mi” which is the root word for our English word antihistamine. An antihistamine is a product “drug” used to counteract the over production of histamine in the body, which is one of the main causes of allergic reactions. An antihistamine attacks that overproduction and brings the body back into balance. To resist the enemy (whose main job is to get us out of balance spiritually) is to allow God to bring balance back into our spiritual lives which will in effect bring balance to our whole man Spirit, and Soul, and Body.

The more I have studied this subject the more I have become convinced that believing that God places sickness, disease and/or infirmity upon us and that He somehow gets GLORY out of this is nothing but a concoction of the carnal mind of man. It does however give some an excuse to remain in the poor physical conditions that they find themselves in. Because they obviously are convinced that since they believe that GOD IS DOING THIS TO THEM that to resist it would be to resist GOD in some way. How we need a transformation in our thinking. Let’s get rid of the schizophrenic God we have heard presented by some and walk after the true GOD with our whole hearts.

I looked up the word schizophrenia to get the accurate definition and here it is:
schiz•o•phre•ni•a n. 1. Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia, often associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe, may have an underlying genetic cause. 2. A condition that results from the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities:

I had no idea of the actual definition before looking it up in The American Heritage Dictionary I only had an idea of its meaning. But when I looked it up the above things that I highlighted and/or underlined jumped out at me. The main one was the one that speaks of the dopamine imbalances in the brain. God has offered us the antihistamine for this condition, and as we accept it we will se our lives brought back into balance, as is the purpose of any antihistamine.

To believe that God is divided against Himself and that on one hand He kills and makes sick, and on the other hand believe HE heals and makes well, is the perfect example of a schizophrenic God. It falls into the same category of explanation of God as does the mainstream religious viewpoint that GOD loves you TODAY enough to save you from SIN but if you die in your sin that this same GOD OF LOVE will cast you into a literal burning fiery place called HELL.

I serve GOD who is GOOD all the time and nothing but that is HIS nature.
If one believes the theories that say that God uses/places or directs sickness/disease or infirmity upon us for any purpose at all then how would they ever know what the will of God is? How would you know when to pray for deliverance or healing if it is GOD DOING IT ALL? Furthermore, if GOD HAS DONE IT ALL (placed this malady upon you) and it is HIS will, then for goodness sake don’t go to the doctor to find ease and/or comfort from that which GOD IS DOING TO YOU. Don’t even pray for healing or you are asking GOD to fight against HIS OWN WILL IF it is indeed HIM that has done these things to you. Just go ahead and die and let HIM get the ultimate glory.

Surely if you are a thinker or honest student of God’s Word at all, you can see the utter absurdity of these last few statements I made. You also know that I said them in jest and to prove a point by making then resound within you.

To attempt to use these verses as proof of God’s sovereignty is a far stretch indeed. I was quite amazed to see that the word sovereign or any of its derivations is not found anywhere in scripture, just like the word rapture is not found there. Does that mean that God is not sovereign? Absolutely not! Sovereign simply means self-governing and one that exercises supreme and permanent authority.

If you have read this far then I ask you to read just a little further for some clarification on a few matters.

First, let me say that if you are suffering any type of sickness or disease or infirmity in your body, soul, or spirit at this time that I do not believe that this disqualifies you from walking as a Child of God in any way. I do not speak the things above to be condemning nor condescending toward you in any way. I mean no malice toward you but only hope for you. I speak these things in the hopes that you will be enlightened and removed from any darkness that may have come against you in your Spirit, Soul, or Body.

Second, if you are suffering in any realm, I pray in Jesus’ name that you will receive the strength of God in manifestation in your spirit, soul, and body.

Third, I do not believe that the present condition you are in, be it in Spirit, Soul, or Body is the final conclusion of the matter. We are growing up INTO HIM who is the HEAD of HIS BODY the church.

Fourth, if you truly believe that what is affecting you in an adverse way at this time is GOD doing it then you have the right to stay where you are.

Fifth, if after reading these things you have seen that GOD IS NOT DOING ALL OF THIS TO YOU, then I offer you a hand up out of your present condition. It is only thru the finished work of the cross that you and I will overcome all of the works of the enemy. That work was done ONCE AND FOR ALL but not all have heard of it, nor have many who have heard it received all of the benefits that are involved by receiving and believing into it. It is up to you! PROVISION has been made, but if you don’t accept the provision then you will never walk into all the benefits of the provision.
The will of God is that you be whole in your Spirit, Soul, and in Your Body. Redemption provides a cure for us in all 5 realms in which the fall of Adam ill affected us. Spiritual, Physical, Mental, Social, and Financial. God never intended for man to die let alone that man be sick. God receives no glory in any way from mankind suffering sickness, disease, or infirmity in any aspect of their lives. He is glorified however when man walks into the provision HE has made for them thru the finished work of the cross.

Last let me say that I am not one who believes that sickness, disease, or infirmity in you is a result of personal sins that you have committed. I do believe however, that all of these are results of the ORIGINAL SIN OF THE FIRST ADAM. I am also of the belief that what the LAST ADAM (JESUS CHRIST) did for/as us on the cross totally eradicates that which the FIRST ADAM did.

You may ask, Then why do we still see people, even Christians, suffering from all types of sickness… in their lives? That is a good question and I believe I have an answer that God has given me on this matter. As much as I don’t even like the answer that God has placed in my own spirit on this matter I still believe it is the truth. WE MUST TRULY LEARN HOW TO BELIEVE INTO AND ACCEPT THE PROVISION THAT GOD HAS ALREADY MADE FOR US AND THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING THAT PERTAINS TO LIFE AND GODLINESS. You may say as I have said in the past, But I do believe! And while it is true that we think we believe, it must be true that we still have some hindrances in our ability to believe fully into that which is provided for us. I am not aiming this at you but I am sharing with you that ALL OF US (INCLUDING ME, ESPECIALLY ME, DID I MENTION ME) still need help in the area of our beliefs.

My understanding is that we are already manifesting what we really believe. Therefore, we must have a change in our belief systems. I don’t like that in my natural man, but I can see the truth in that. My goal is to learn how to truly BELIEVE into HIM completely. If it is true that we will have what we say then we truly (I TRULY) need a watch about my mouth as I have a tendency to speak against the truth, rather than agreeing with the truth. You might ask, What do you mean by you speak against the truth? Glad you asked!

God’s word says I AM RIGHTEOUS! But many times my confession about myself is far less than that.

God’s word says I AM HOLY, BECAUSE HE IS HOLY! However, at times I do not believe I AM HOLY because of what I may have done or not done, etc… We must come to the place where we realize this New Testament walk is not about what we do, or what we bring, it is about what we believe. By believing I am talking far more than a mere lip service to something or even a head knowledge alone about an issue, I am speaking about these truths manifesting in our lives as we LIVE, MOVE, AND HAVE OUR BEING IN HIM.

God’s word says I AM CLEAN THRU THE WORD! But I don’t always manifest that cleanliness that is available to me and therefore I don’t feel clean. Folks this isn’t about our feelings anyway, it is about HIS LIFE becoming ours.
I do not have to feel clean, holy, or righteous in order for it to be true of me. IT IS TRUE OF ME BECAUSE HE SAID SO.

God’s word says I AM AN OVERCOMER by the blood of the lamb, and the word of my testimony….. But many times I don’t see myself as an overcomer because I feel or act defeated or bothered by this or that, but that doesn’t negate the TRUTH. I AM AN OVERCOMER.
Look closely at that verse and you will see that your being an overcomer is partially based upon the WORDS OF YOUR TESTIMONY. A testimony is a statement of truth given by one who has been an eye witness to something. Are you an eyewitness to the finished work of the cross? If you are then testify to that with your lifestyle.

I truly hope this has been enlightenment for you as it has been for me. I started this study to prove only to myself whether or not it was true that God was the one doing all of these things to us. As I have studied these few verses that were shared with me to attempt to prove this point as fact, I have truly been enlightened to the REAL TRUTH about the issue. God is not out to destroy, hurt, maim, kill, or anything of the sort. He is out for our good. If you will take the time to STUDY these verses you will see that when taken in context they mean one thing but when dealt with out of context or as a stand alone word they can mean something totally different. I refuse to eat a partial LAMB dinner. I want to eat the WHOLE LAMB as they did on PASSOVER and it will make me WHOLE IN SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY.

I so truly pray God's healing and grace upon all here and I know that brings with it a yea nad amen from the Father.

John

Well my friend you needed to just stop right there with only an Amen added.

Why? ..... because you cannot have it both ways without hypocrisy.

The buck stops at God's desk where the plans and purposes of your life and mine have been laid out perfectly to the minutest detail.

"For Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things (Hebrews 2:10ff)."

can you read that "by Whom are all things."

yes, as you say, "nothing is out of His control"

John