It is a doctrine of fear and escapism, and it puts all of the responsibility on God doing something, while a people wait.

It has caused people to give up the life Jesus came to give them, and to judge others according to their doctrine. I had this understanding for most of my life, and I recall singing a song such as "I Wish We'd All Been Ready," while I had never truly studied the bible.

Today I am bothered by the attitude I had while believing this doctrine. I was satisfied that many would be in agony for seven years, and eventually eternally, while I was having a great feast in heaven. I was content to accept the traditional, carnal teachings of fear based preachers, who could never explain the word of God to fit their theory. There was a time I would have fought for the cause, because I strongly believed it.

This theory annuls the understanding that God is Sovereign, Supreme in power, and Omnipotent. It does not even make sense, when explained by those who teach it. It supports the idea that God had to go to plan B, when Lucifer messed up, and was thrown out of heaven. Although this lie is not even in the bible, it is taught to a people who refuse to study. It appears Satan's craftiness severely damaged God's plan, and God was completely docile while Satan did this. The teaching has given so much power to the enemy, that Satan is in the position opposite from God and he is winning. This Sovereign God was unexpectedly defeated, which annuls an all knowing God.

I understand Isaiah 14:12 is used to proclaim Lucifer's fall, however even when I believed this theory, I could not make this scripture say what is being taught to the church.

People who hold fast to this doctrine are influenced by external happenings, and not an experience that deals with the inside of man. This is the place God is interested in, and not the a literal place called Israel, or Jerusalem.

If people actually looked at what they have spent their lives waiting for, they would find that the word rapture is not even in the bible. It was not taught at all before the eighteen hundreds, and this fraudulent doctrine was introduced by the Catholic Church.

I question the good it is doing in the earth, because those who believe it to be their hope, do not understand Jesus died for everyone in the world, and not just those who understand what he did, If escapism is the hope, why should we be overcomers, or peacemakers, or those who teach the good news. Why not just practice jumping high, and keep looking in the sky for that cloud he is coming on, while we sing "I'll Fly Away,"!

With this understanding, there is no need to take care of our earth, or study about how the bible describes clouds as a people, or note that he has already come several times, and he is continually coming in a people who are looking for him, understanding Christ in us, the hope of glory.

I just wanted to write some thoughts I was having today about the destiny of this teaching. Please feel free to add your thoughts.

Yes, ain't that the truth! And oh, how they love to rail on the environmentalists. To me, if there is anything that says God will soon be bringing judgement, it is that, we are fast destroying this planet.

Good word Gayle,

John

Historical Account Of The Pretrib Rapture's Origin
From the writings of J. Preston Eby
http://www.theologue.org/Theory-JPEby.html

Here is that which I think the best on the Book of Revelation, also by Eby
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev1.htm

some more "Revelation", verse by verse by David Fields (this site can be slow loading)
http://www.davidlfields.org/transcripts.html

Be blessed my friend,

John

OH yes, how that it was going to be "as in the days of Noah". And how 2 shall be in the field and 1 taken, the other left. Two grinding at the mill, 1 taken, the other left etc.. we all know the story and have heard this preached with fervor and sweat.

But a little comprehension skills would serve some folks well.
VS 38,39 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking .....until Noah entered into the ark. 39 and knew not until the flood came and TOOK them all away.....(remember Noah was NOT TAKEN he REMAINED in the earth ...the others were TAKEN )

So the 2 in the field as well as the 2 grinding mill
1 was TAKEN and the Other was left in the earth like Noah.

I remember when the Spirit first opened my eyes to this truth many years ago. I was amazed and then afraid. Excited and disillusioned. If there was no rapture then what? I began asking the Lord to show me more theories that have been sown among us.

I also begin to see a principal in the word and church history...
Daniel was not delivered/raptured from a lions den...he was delivered THROUGH it. The 3 Hebrew children were not delivered/raptured FROM the Fire but THROUGH it....PAUL was not delivered FROM a Storm but THROUGH it. Christ was not delivered/raptured FROM a cross but THROUGH it. Hmmm. Escapism will never produce faith.

After the rapture was ruptured for me...I had to grow up.

When I was about 14 yrs old (years before I came to understand this truth in my 30's)...I remember a very vivid dream.
Dream: I was looking up outside our house and saw Santa Claus in a sleigh flying in the air...I ran inside and my dad was playing the guitar and I was telling him to come outside because it was the rapture!

Today I laugh at the silliness of the dream, but I do understand that even at that young age the Spirit was showing me that like Santa the rapture is a myth.

This teaching is still precious to me as it was my first revelation/understanding taught not by men but by the Holy Spirit to me.

Still growing up,
Bev

Last Edited on 29-Sep-2009 8:52 PM

A few years back I also wrote a booklet on the subject of the rapture and if you'd like a free copy just email me and ask and I will send it to you. Not as in depth as the others but perhaps some basics may be needed on the subject before you tackle these other more in-depth studies. My email address is khilmolf@embarqmail.com and my name is Ken Hill. Just identify yourself with some type of question on the rapture as I get loads of junk email and delete them en masse. If you do not respond that is ok too I am just extending a helping hand if you so desire.

I was also raised classical Pentecostal from day 1 I was in church and my folks were the pastors. Great people and trustworthy ministers of that which they knew. But God has revealed more and for that we all on this website are very thankful.

If I may serve you in any way please do not hesitate to ask. I have been where you are and know that your struggles will produce within you a hunger that will no longer be satisfied with the status quo of religion. Not all of us on this website always agree on every issue, but we are learning not to be disagreeable about our differences anyway PTL.

Love IN Christ,
Ken Hill

I have found that some of the people close to me who hold fast to this doctrine, are unkind, unfair, and even spiteful. I believe the rapture teaching causes this, because this belief says God is going to massacre people who have the mark. If this is how they see God, they feel justified to show discrimination, unfounded hatred, and partiality.

I think your statement about growing up, and your interpretation of the scripture used for this teaching is a look at reality.

I was motivated to read Rev.Cook's post, and elated with his attitude. It didn't sound as though he was sure, but he was certainly open to hear.

I always look at the deliverance at the time of Passover in Egypt, and observe how God provided supernatural protection for his children. Although the Egyptians suffered through seven plagues, the children of Israel were not harmed.

I think the story of Moses is a good example for us today, because I think those plagues are repeated in the book of Revelation. People quote devastation in the earth from this book, and they fear the outcome. Webster's even defines Apocalypse as the Day of Reckoning, and it predicts future disaster, such as Anmageddon, as well as the end of the world. It reflects on movies done on this subject.

I believe this shows us that what is being said in the earth matters. When you see a dictionary define a word that was characterized in movies, and it identifies with this concept, its easy to understand indoctrination. I believe the Rapture was systematically spread to promote this doctrine of fear, to manipulate church and religion.

The word Apocalypse means to unveal, or to disclose, or to reveal something hidden. The book of Revelation says, This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. It is a summery of the entire bible. The bible is known as the Gospel, or Good News. At what point did we think God wanted to reveal devastation to the world that he created. If its Judgment Day, we should look forward to him making everything right in the earth that has been wrong.

We have let Hollywood distort our thinking. Bev talks about our comprehension skills, and I have always been slow in this area. It is because of this, that I know people can make the effort to study. I have learned in my slow process that it is important to study the book within the book. I believe the mistakes that have caused so much confusion in our world today is that we have been guilty of seeing a word we are familiar with, and carnally taking that word to mean something our flesh thinks ouside the book.

If we see a sea of glass mingled with fire, our thought process should recall a place we have read in the bible about fire or perhaps the mixture of glass and fire, which is sand. Where did it speak of the sand seed? We might recall the women giving their brass compacts, for the brazen sea, so they could see themselves, which ultimately speaks of overcoming an identity crisis, or the beast nature. The mark implies what we call sin, or missing the mark.

My purpose to throw out an idea about study is because I have only come to this understanding within the last 7 years. It makes all the difference about how we see the word of God. With this understanding we will see ourselves walking out the word.

I have been taught all of my life about the battle of Armageddon, and how high the blood comes to the horse's bridle. I have watched as preachers talk about the word being literal, and not allegorical but the book of Revelation actually uses the word signified. This means it is written in a symbollic language.

Rev. 14:20 speaks of the horse bridles, and Rev. 15 continues to speak of what was seen. Once they are standing on the sea of glass, it says they sing the song of Moses, verse 3. The song of Moses was heard after the Red Sea covered Pharoah's Army. This is a picture of the Red Sea coming to the horse's bridle. This is also a picture in symbolic language. After looking at this in scripture, think about the way you have heard this preached.

When I look at scripture in the book of Revelation sometimes I am overwhelmed. I am also excited because I realize the book is a mystery, and there is something hidden here that God wants us to uncover. I love this book, and I can not even begin to tell you how excited I am when I uncover another mystery. I believe the greatest mystery is that Christ is in us, and this compells me to know the heart of God.

I long to tell those who have been deceived the truth, and comfort them in his love for them. I know I have been made free by a different understanding of who God is.

Lord, thank you for unveiling Yourself that we might soon be found in Your very image,

John

It goes along with the rapture and wrong thinking of the apostate church .... doesn't it.

"Oh, to know of Christ and His Kingdom within."
This is my hope for these poor people.

One of the hardest things for me to deal with personally when the kingdom principles started opening to me was the ones such as anonymous above who seem to think more highly of themselves than they/we should. Let me explain what I mean by this. Just the statement alone that says "This is my hope for these POOR people.' And again "...are these people worshipping the antiChrist?"
In no way when I was a believer in the rapture and many other doctrines that have since become changed or deleted from my thinking was I ever "worshipping the antiChrist." Nor was I one of those "poor people".
I think it is time for us to be less condescending toward those who haven't been enlightened as we claim to have been and more willing to lay our lives down for the cause of the kingdom.
Unless we were born into the understanding of the kingdom as God has now revealed unto us then we ALL probably believed some things that we no longer believe. After all, one can only walk in that which is revealed unto them anyway, right? I don't despise the day of my Pentecostal upbringing in any way, nor should any of us. Obviously there was something instilled within us while there that led us to further study and where we are or at least claim to be today.
Some of the people I dealt with early in my exposure to the "Kingdom message" almost turned me off to anything deeper/further with their poor attitudes they exhibited toward those who "didn't know what they claimed to know". One thing I learned was that doctrine of the kingdom is NOT ENOUGH. There must be the true SPIRIT OF THE KINGDOM which is none other than the SPIRIT OF CHRIST manifested in/thru us or our talk is just rhetoric.
My parents both died believing in the rapture/etc... as was typical Pentecostal doctrine, but anyone who knew them would have to agree that they manifested the Love of God, the power of God, and the anointing of God in and thru their lives. In fact, I will go as far as to say (I am sure this is somewhat prejudiced on my part also LOL) that there arent many of the kingdom/new day/reconciliation ministers that I have met or known over the years that have had as much manifestation of healings, deliverances, salvations, and people being filled with the Holy Ghost as I saw thru the ministry of my own parents. Though they weren't perfect and didn't see what we see, they had a love for God as did/do your parents and in no way were they worshipping the antiChrist.
Here is a principle I TRY to live by, even though I am not always perfect in it. If I feel I am above or more advanced than someone else I do not speak down to them, I in loving kindness attempt to reach toward them to lift them up if I can.
I remember a thought that Bro. Bennie Skinner (a cousin of mine) said many years ago. We were talking about our present beliefs compared to our past understandings. He compared the present truth with a "STRAIGHT STICK" and the former things of our understandings or misunderstandings as a "CROOKED STICK". Even though I was somewhat confused on how to speak to people that I knew weren't seeing what I was, I still had the opportunity to preach to them on many occasions. I asked Bennie what I should do and his words of wisdom were this. "Since you can't go in and destroy their "CROOKED STICK" just go in and preach the "STRAIGHT STICK" so straight that they have to look at their own stick and make the comparison themselves." Since then I have learned that I can't get up and tell all I know everytime I preach but I can drop a seed here and there and those seeds will fall into good ground. And the law of Genesis says that every seed will produce after its own kind. It can't produce anything different than what it is. So we keep on sowing/planting/and watering and GOD WILL GIVE THE INCREASE IN HIS TIME.
Didn't mean to write so much. Hope this makes sense and helps someone.
Love IN Christ,
Ken

God knows my heart, when I use the word "poor people" and you do not!

John

Ken, you have broken your own principle in the very post in which you share it.

“But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.” 2 Cor 10:17-18

John

Someone, once said:
"Even's God's worst evil is good, while man's best good is evil"

Lord bless you,

John

As you already know I was diagnosed with Breast cancer last Oct, and without going into all that this incurs, I felt that this was such an intrusion in our lives. It took so much out of me physically, and put so much of a strain on our family, and even our friends.

The reason I bring this up at this point is because with all the confusion encountered, I suspect the reason for this, might be the way I feed people. I have never had any trouble feeding people physically , but spiritually I see myself somewhat arrogant. We recently encountered a situation where I was able to see myself, and what I had produced in someone who I thought, I was teaching.

The breast is a source of nourishment, and it nurtures, protects, and sustains babies. It is the way they develope and the way they are strengthened. Mine obviously, was not working properly.

I really did not see those around me as babies, I actually saw them as enemies. I could elaborate, but if we are sincere with God, he will show us the problem with ourself, and not necessarily with others. I believe types and shadows are a way to examine our conscience. We can actually look at the things going on around us, to see our condition, and it is our condition that we are able to change, not the condition of others.

When the situation occured, someone resentfully said, " who made you the teacher?" There was a tone of jealousy, and even hate, and no matter what I said, I wasn't going to diffuse this disapproving attitude.

People put their expectations on me, but I knew God wanted me to set myself apart from all of the confusion, and lies. He wanted me to see myself, and not what others did wrong, because in order for me to come into his purpose, I must learn how to feed babies in Spirit. I am watching those in ministry who have been teaching truth for years. It is like you say, a seed, and then...

There are three days, and everyday is important in the Kingdom. Our children are important, and our experiences in first day, second day, and beyond the veil. I believe God wants me to learn how to encourage, and leave the revelations to him. It will be a seed, someone else perhaps, coming to water the seed, good ground, and in God's time. Thank you for your post. Love In Christ, Gayle

Now I will tell on myself. If my mother were still alive she would be the first to expose me. :)

When I was 15, I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was so amazed, thrilled, and in awe of speaking in tongues. It was a miracle that was happening on the inside. (Ken you might remember this you were there and both your parents in service that night).
So the next day, I'm riding the bus home from school and was holding a little camp meeting at the back of the bus...I just had to share this with everyone and 'get them saved'. Well there was this one older boy, who was making fun of me. I didn't like him much anyway, but...he managed to push my buttons. One minute I'm preaching the love of God and next moment I'm screaming at the top of my lungs for him to go ahead and BURN IN HELL!!!
Then weighing less than 98 lbs I dove at the 6'0 boy and started swinging! (I think I got suspended for fighting). Mom was horrified. Dad chuckled then he was in trouble with Mom.

Today I would like to think that I have learned and grown so much in Lord. I would like to think that I have received revelation and deeper relationship in Christ..that my speech is seasoned and my temper restrained. And that as I have matured I have learned to love at least some of the unlovable and that I have decreased as Christ has increased in me.

Nope. Just this week, I unleased that sharp tongue and temper. (although I didn't take a swing doesn't mean that I didn't feel like it and the fact that I live in a different state.) My encounter was with a religious minded relative...that pushed those same buttons. Afterwards, I examined myself for intent and motives... they were pure but the temper and mouth could stand a good muzzle. Wish'd I had Ken's lesson on one seed at a time.

Somebody PLEASE tell me that I am not the only one still going around this same mountain. And if I am the only one after all these years...I need deliverance in the worst kind of way.

Just being painfully honest today,
Bev